tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post4115113362870068738..comments2024-03-26T07:37:54.729+00:00Comments on Confessions of a Ci-Devant: The Age of Anne BoleynGareth Russellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09102113677858015813noreply@blogger.comBlogger89125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-91322441625504185772021-02-27T00:35:01.307+00:002021-02-27T00:35:01.307+00:00This is very, very late, and I'm new to this s...This is very, very late, and I'm new to this site so this may be rude to post so long after it was written; if so, I apologize.<br /><br />I loved this article! I always thought it was weird that Chapuys, who is famously catty, would never say, "The Councubine is too OLD to have children" if Anne has in her 30s when she married. <br /><br />I also found some other evidence that Iris Hwanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07010982242599353961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-3222640729779063972015-12-16T11:56:02.331+00:002015-12-16T11:56:02.331+00:00Wonderful article! Thank you for sharing it, Garre...Wonderful article! Thank you for sharing it, Garreth!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03118217283678376101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-86214586775534212832014-12-01T01:07:30.208+00:002014-12-01T01:07:30.208+00:00Thomas Boleyn's statement that his wife "...Thomas Boleyn's statement that his wife "brought [him] every year a child" is quoted ad nauseum as evidence for a 1501 birth year. However, has it occurred to anyone that Mr. Boleyn may have been using hyperbole for persuasive/dramatic effect? Perhaps he never intended his statement to be taken 100% literally.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-35362937563899672572014-04-12T00:31:27.515+01:002014-04-12T00:31:27.515+01:00Do you mean that Anne acted as a translator for he...Do you mean that Anne acted as a translator for her father at the French court? Since her father spoke French fluently that would hardly have been needed.<br /><br />A note on the letter written from Anne to her father. Maybe the handwriting is that 'of a small child'. But the content does really not sound like something a 6-7 year old would be able to write.<br /><br />Just my 2 cents :-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16393079922117851774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-42673431936806725642013-09-15T13:31:35.397+01:002013-09-15T13:31:35.397+01:00Conor, that shows he was confused about the later ...Conor, that shows he was confused about the later chronology of her life, not earlier. He quite specifically gave 1507 as her date of birth; the chronology of her adult career was a source of confusion to him due to the mystery that surrounded, and still surround, what happened to her between 1521 and 1528.Gareth Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09102113677858015813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-82134262769949334862013-09-14T11:10:07.791+01:002013-09-14T11:10:07.791+01:00Camden actually expressed confusion about Anne Bol...Camden actually expressed confusion about Anne Boleyn's date of birth. Recalling that she was born in 1507, he later opined that Henry VIII had fallen in love with her aged thirty-eight (1529), when Anne was in the twentieth year of her age, placing her birth in c1509. <br />He later suggested that this happened in the seventeenth year of his marriage to Katherine of Aragon (c.1525/6), which Conorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09815745211426638820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-73700493483073744232013-07-06T18:43:15.076+01:002013-07-06T18:43:15.076+01:00I love your article and agree with most of your ar...I love your article and agree with most of your arguments. <br /><br />1501 makes sense when considering that Anne went abroad in 1513 for her education but less so when considering her first pregnancy in 1533 when she would have been 32, rather late by 16th century standards. <br /><br />No matter how infatuated Henry VIII was with her and no matter how sure of herself she may have been she mustAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-58328701938199347722013-06-01T17:54:20.406+01:002013-06-01T17:54:20.406+01:00Gareth, brilliant article, I've always felt th...Gareth, brilliant article, I've always felt the 1507 date was the true one too based on more or less the same interpretation of the available evidence. But you've argued the position so cogently that even sceptics have to concede that it's a valid viewpoint. Well done. Looking forward to reading your book!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-74533427748479060052013-05-24T12:10:08.546+01:002013-05-24T12:10:08.546+01:00I have changed the wording of the essay as I reali...I have changed the wording of the essay as I realised how bad it sounded - apologies. It was not actually in reference to you by the way. I also did not mean for it to be passionate, hence why I have changed it. Please accept my apology!Conorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09815745211426638820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-17732206793792446032013-05-21T15:04:23.716+01:002013-05-21T15:04:23.716+01:00Conor, I am sorry if you feel that I have "di...Conor, I am sorry if you feel that I have "distorted or exaggerated" the evidence to suit my argument; I have always hoped that I read the evidence then reached the argument, not the other way around. It was an interesting article, certainly, but with all due respect, I had considered and evaluated all the evidence before I reached my conclusion and before writing this piece - includingGareth Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09102113677858015813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-68386789448658131132013-05-21T14:44:38.072+01:002013-05-21T14:44:38.072+01:00Gareth I have found compelling evidence to disprov...Gareth I have found compelling evidence to disprove this argument.<br /><br />http://conorbyrnex.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/the-boleyn-marriage-and-birth-of-anne.htmlConorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09815745211426638820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-13272054179341368422013-05-04T08:38:50.799+01:002013-05-04T08:38:50.799+01:00Where do you think Anne was born if she was was bo...Where do you think Anne was born if she was was born in 1507? Would her being born in 1507 mean that she was born in Hever Castle, as that was her family's place of residence at the time? <br />Thank you, excellent article.Kyliehttp://kylie.floriental.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-45582134785577704832013-03-14T04:16:00.605+00:002013-03-14T04:16:00.605+00:00What are your opinions on Thomas Cromwell?What are your opinions on Thomas Cromwell?Marian Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00653572277326872451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-51411469955159951482013-03-12T08:53:23.672+00:002013-03-12T08:53:23.672+00:00Wow. Absolutely brilliant. As someone who has alwa...Wow. Absolutely brilliant. As someone who has always leaned towards the 1501 date you have completely convinced me of contrary. Very well written and researched. Also I didn't know that Anne Brandon who would have been a year (with the 1507 date) older than Anne was at Margarets court around the same time, which I think adds a lot if weight behind the 1507 birth date. Sarahhttp://www.methadoneugly.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-80915283087460064562013-02-06T14:00:42.750+00:002013-02-06T14:00:42.750+00:00Thank you Gareth you complete and utter legend!! ...Thank you Gareth you complete and utter legend!! I have always felt when reading sources of how she behaved in her lifetime where more like a younger woman, but historians are constantly dismissing that theory. I could go on but it would be a ramble. Thank you. xxMariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06800740939632133862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-1057574069283802892012-12-07T02:03:00.207+00:002012-12-07T02:03:00.207+00:00Great article Gareth, You make some insightful poi...Great article Gareth, You make some insightful points, but I think you're overlooking a few things. Apart from his midlife crisis with Kathryn Howard, Henry VIII was never attracted to pubescent girls. He was drawn to educated, intelligent, compelling WOMEN. Katherine of Aragon was 6 1/2 years older than Henry when they married; he could have had his choice of any nubile princess, but he Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-44245277474688238382012-11-11T17:17:12.845+00:002012-11-11T17:17:12.845+00:00Thank you, Kurt, I'm so glad you enjoyed it. T...Thank you, Kurt, I'm so glad you enjoyed it. That's a very fair point, but I think far too much has been made of the so-called "mean age" of marriage. In the first case, it's obviously a very imprecise estimate since we don't know the date of birth for the vast majority of Tudor brides, even aristocratic ones. Secondly, if one looks within Anne's own family, all the Gareth Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09102113677858015813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-13051086821471298972012-11-11T16:48:33.348+00:002012-11-11T16:48:33.348+00:00An excellent article here. However I have been rea...An excellent article here. However I have been reading extensively about attitudes to marriage in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries and in view of the evidence provided I take exception to some of your arguments.<br />For instance, Martin Ingram has provided evidence that the mean age of women who married in early modern England was the mid-to-late twenties. In the early seventeenth centuryKurtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-76636385901476982352012-10-22T14:05:19.932+01:002012-10-22T14:05:19.932+01:00No not you necessarily Gareth - I mean with Profe...No not you necessarily Gareth - I mean with Professor Warnicke too. Anyway it is an interesting debate so I'm sure it'll continue for a while.<br />Conornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-82759535031004350762012-10-21T22:24:13.721+01:002012-10-21T22:24:13.721+01:00Too much has been made of it? I think I mentioned ...Too much has been made of it? I think I mentioned it once?<br /><br />All valid points, Conor. Thank you. Gareth Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09102113677858015813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-28467694171431212942012-10-21T11:06:27.648+01:002012-10-21T11:06:27.648+01:00I just find it hard to believe that she would have...I just find it hard to believe that she would have been there for another role rather than maid of honour. If she was a maid of honour she must have needed to have been around thirteen years old, as Warnicke herself states - they needed to act as "decorative foils".<br />And on the Princess Renee's comments, as Ives states, she remembered her as a maid of honour rather than Conornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-52993185396329801042012-10-20T15:35:50.192+01:002012-10-20T15:35:50.192+01:00That's certainly possible, but it leaves out a...That's certainly possible, but it leaves out all the other wealth of anecdotal evidence from the 1520s and the 1530s. Far too much is made of the maid of honour rule; it was frequently bent to suit the Archduchess's requirements. As indeed it was at most European courts. Simply because Anne was born in 1507 does not mean that she ipso facto was in the French royal nursery, although as Gareth Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09102113677858015813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-10678630469042308282012-10-20T14:53:36.206+01:002012-10-20T14:53:36.206+01:00Gareth, what do you believe Anne's role in Fra...Gareth, what do you believe Anne's role in France was, since if you believe she was born in 1507 then surely you agree with Warnicke's claim that she was brought up in the nursery since she cannot have been a maid of honour?<br />I personally don't think "la petite Boulain" needs to suggest a 7 or 8 year old girl. If Anne was born in the summer of 1501, and she was sent in Conornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-174494619462321682012-10-04T17:08:34.577+01:002012-10-04T17:08:34.577+01:00To me what's incredible is that in Antonia Fra...To me what's incredible is that in Antonia Fraser's book about the wives of Henry the VIII, she uses the Duchess of Feria testimony to claim Anne was likely born in the summer or autumn, but then claim she was more likely born in 1501.<br /><br />I just can't found a reasonable explanation for that. How can you just use information to back up a theory, but then ignore that same Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3354677738876576370.post-29342257045460249892012-05-01T01:26:53.412+01:002012-05-01T01:26:53.412+01:00If you look up the year of 1501 and 1507 in the Ch...If you look up the year of 1501 and 1507 in the Chinese tables of astrological signs, you'll find 1501 is the year of the Rooster. When I read the description for the female I immediately thought Anne was a Rooster...however the year 1507 was the year of the Rabbit and if you read the female description of that, you'll see that it matches Anne's description almost to a "T". Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com